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Hawaii's Higher Realm? "Hawaii Disc Golf" is strengthening its commitment and resolve to assist in the protection and promotion of "Professional Disc Golf" in the State of Hawaii....and beyond. I do not know why so much extremely "pertinent, and timely" DG related info was removed from the HDGA.org discussion forum under the guise of being irrelevant or out of date. I believe it is vital for ALL DGers to show how we have nothing to hide and are currently capable as a growing sport to adhere to rules, regulations, requests, and requirements of our various types of sponsors, as opposed to "openly and clearly" demonstrating to ALL that we wish to control speech and hide behind silent and ever shifting layers of leaders, clubs, and proxies when these basics are not met. I believe we must clearly demonstrate a "desire" to "adhere" to land and other sponsor requests. It really scares me (and others) when ANY sponsor like PDGA, Hawaii Disc Golf, DLNR, UofH, City and County of Honolulu, Rices of PoliPoli Maui, etc may have questions, instructions or concerns about possible multiple illegal actions in their names, and/or on their physical property, and/or with their intellectual property, whereby they are then ignored in many emails and public DG oriented forum, and/or publicly chastised and ridiculed, and/or cast away for openly questioning such; While the ones openly coordinating and supporting these said possible illegal and totally irresponsible acts, without hesitation, give in their own forum and words, not-so-defacto and not-so-legal instructions on how to get around the various supporting landowner(s) requests, while then blatantly attempting to quash or quell any and all open discussions about such. As a sponsor, that scares me and HDG(and others), and as a so called "Professional" player, it does too. I'm hoping someone else will buck-up and help me demonstrate to potential sponsors and players that more than just I and "Hawaii Disc Golf" on the islands will openly and freely 'respond to' and 'adhere to' rules, regs, law, etc; but specifically for this case, when it comes to "properly" participating, representing and promoting "Professional DG". The word "Professional" is not a power-label, moniker, or ego-tag, so to speak....which some acquire by paying the PDGA.........and as so many use and perceive.......but instead, it represents an honorable method of accomplishment and representation towards PDGA(or not) goals and endeavors. It's a higher way of doing things...within the specified framework and guidelines of the Law and PDGA. It would be great for all to hear input from such local DG enthusiasts as a possible local DGing attorney, a DGing writer, a DGing webmaster, DGing mediator, DGing promotor, DGing player, DGing sponsor, or ANYONE openly willing to assist and/or participate in these long overdue and clearly voiced efforts toward island "DG Professionalism". Instead of making voiced and written generalizations about HDG's or my desires, acts, and endeavors, and then removing their previous public positions from their own advertised "discussion forum", I wish they would come right out and say in writing what problems they think my and HDG’s stance(s) on professionalism has caused. I have had complete strangers(and local friends/acquaintances) approach me with verbal relay of other local DGers' slanderous accusations against HDG and I personally. I wonder why NO-ONE will put it in writing, or even publically respond to their many previous public verbal and written claims against HDG and myself, and I wonder why ALL such traces of such conversations has been removed from light, by the very people that keep "Pro-claiming" their desire to be professional and open and cooperative. I also have been labeled "so chivalrous". THANKS! It was referred to and used in a context as if that was a bad thing though, in the middle of a so called apology, and many here(Ams and Pros) have "downplayed" or openly laughed about the importance of "professionalism" on the course(s). I have always said(since 1990), "If you want to compete in tourneys to have fun, stay Am." In '99, after a heated face-to-face DG discussion, I told these guys, "be the Pro that you are". Professionals "have to" operate at a higher level.....by the very definition of the word. We cannot teach the youth(future of sport) to be any other way. I wish other person(s) or entity(s) representing disc golf on the islands would have in the past, or could without hesitation in the present, and will FOREVER IN THE FUTURE, demonstrate a "desire" and "capacity" to be "open , professional, and transparent" in their discussions and publicly promoted transactions regarding the sport......for EVERYONE'S sake...as opposed to asking or instructing some to remain silent during so called "open" discussion. I believe players and sponsors(ca$h,merchandise,labor,advertising,land,etc) other than myself and HDG look for these traits(openess,transparency,communication,cooperation) before, when, and if they get involved. I believe some of the newest sponsors though are less concerned with these issues, and may be actually supporting those that promote: Rewarding rules violations; Conspiratorial and colluded acts and silence; Theft and control of various forms of intellectual properties from several sources; Misrepresentation by illegal acts in name(s) and image(s) of other sponsor(s); Destruction of State property at multiple locations; Instructing visitors and locals in public forum how to ignore and subvert landlord requests; Blatant exclusion from local participation of person and sponsors openly questioning these mentioned public acts; along with other things. I say this because I have yet to see ANY of the newest sponsors respond openly/publicly to these numerous disconcerting issues(Honolulu Disc Golf/Oahu Disc Golf Leaders, Castaways, HC&BW, etc.).......other than telling me to shut-up and go away, and/or just ignoring my emails and voicings, and/or getting in their car(s) and driving away in unison. As a player(and sponsor) to ALL island DG entities and events since '99, HDG and I have looked for openness about local DG actions and intentions, and HDG and I have given such back, along with most of the sponsored items listed above, in an honest effort to openly and clearly demonstrate our non-partisan support for Professional DG on the islands. I have yet to see one other person or group in the discussion forum or representing the islands support the various sponsors' requirements, but I and many others have seen many in the HDGA.org discussion forum openly counter and ignore such....and/or give instructions on how others are to avoid and subvert the sponsor requests....while the leaders then blatantly remove all traces of such discussion from light. Others may no longer stand behind their previous discussion forum entries, but I do mine. WILL ONE PERSON OR ENTITY PUT IN WRITING WHAT I OR HDG HAVE DONE WRONG?.....since sooooo many openly promote that position verbally and in various forums. Where are specifics?...in writing. I HAVE NOT WAIVERED ON MY PROFESSIONAL ISLAND DG POSITION OR STANCE SINCE ARRIVING IN JUNE '99. And, I have been COMPLETELY OPEN AND HONEST IN MY INTENT AND PUBLIC ATTEMPTS/ACTS TO SUPPORT/PROMOTE "ALL" island(and non-island) DG events and sponsors.......EQUALLY!!!! This I did in Texas too(I did not please all players or TDs or CPs though), by working with any/numerous TDs/CPs/Organizations that asked, and by respecting and 'PROMOTING' the numerous landowners'/sponsors' varied requests...not by subverting or ignoring, or instructing others how. I can somewhat understand why some on the BigIsle do not yet comprehend many things. They just had not ever sponsored a PDGA event, until after my '99 arrival and my many persistent questions about lack of islands' PDGA events, and after my repeatedly stated desire to help sponsor some local PDGA events. They just do not have the 25+yrs Professional promoting and advertising experience, or the 27+ yrs of network graphic experience, nor do they have the years of PDGA promotion and participation experience since '88. They are trying, which I have always supported, while participating too. For their livelihood, and to put shoes on their children's feet, some here grow and sell things. I create/produce professional grfx, promote others endeavors, Represent, WebMaster, etc. Can you see me trying to assist DG by working in their greenhouses? I can make "some" things grow too, but would they "really" flourish without some years of expertise?.....probably about as well as DG has and is flourishing here. I wish they would quit trying to control DG from my greenhouse/website/persona/etc....and instead receive the simple gracious and heartfelt offer of professional grfx and professional promotional experience(DG too)......and then simply continue to coordinate with and support ALL POTENTIAL AND ACTUAL SPONSORS for future. Some BigIslers(and maybe others) have just formed a new exclusionary club called "The Castaways"....even though we don't have enough DGers out here to exclude, cast away, or not invite. I think it's a greatly telling, foxy and cute name. I think it clearly reflects what will happen if someone like myself(and the others before me) disagree with some of their members' previous positions, policies and/or acts. And, their website insinuates that a group that already has openly cast and driven and ignored others away, while they get in their cars and go to different course to avoid playing with "some(me)", could and would label themselves as being castaways. TWISTO-DE-FACTO-OF-NAMO? Very common approach around here. Many have accused me and/or HDG of trying to make money off of DG, even though ALL we have tried to do is "give them all" a "common" place where they can sell, demonstrate or pitch whatever DG stuffs it is that they do......AT NO CHARGE!!!! NO ONE ELSE WAS!!! AND IN FACT, HDGA.org leader stated from his forum that they are paying high dollars for their "questionable" "surf" grfx. Maybe they paid for the illegally modified PDGA logo too......or they just used someone very inexperienced in this biz....but we don't know, because that too has been removed from light.....and no longer discussed. I was not the first of the islands with the question(s) about their bought-and-paid-for and/or stolen grfx EITHER time of the two separate instances. MikeL brought the first image/name concerns to Wailoa in Sept’2002, and someone else spoke first in forum about "surfer DG grfx". I did not bring either issue to light, but I surely did respond. For their "surfer" grfx production services rendered, who received money donated/gathered by fellow discers, DGers and supporters?....NOT ME. I'VE NEVER ASKED FOR A DIME, nor did I the contact the PDGA about HDGA's illegal usage of modified PDGA logo in HDG name. And as a simple and chosen matter of their course, those issues too have been removed from discussion. In 99, I scanned a PunaGold disc/stamp and produced some clean/professional PunaGoldSinsimellia(sic) web grfx and put up so that mainlanders and others could see what stamps etc these guys are selling and have produced in the past, but I/HDG was asked/told to remove it because "those stamps were not available anymore". I was also asked not to scan other "local stamps for publication".....for some STRANGE UNKNOWN reason. Yet, I and others have watched these being "exclusively" sold to visitors at many events since, and upto present......but very quietly...and only to a select few. Shhhh! I dunno, maybe they don't really want to generate funds for new(any) course(s). I don’t know why they don’t want their past or present Hawaii collector disc stamps presented....or why they are seemingly reserved for a select few. Maybe they can say. Maybe they just don’t want HDG to help, and maybe they will say why.....if that is the case. I do know they have sure tried to keep MANY things quiet in the representation of Professional DG....but I don't know if we are to be silent about that too! In 2002, in an effort to support and promote ALL Island DG happenins, and because there was no or little Maui DG info available, I put up info page at HDG about Al's PoliPoli Maui course, but was immediately asked by him to remove the info because "the landowner asked him not to promote"(similar thing happened with Kona too. Waimea has had some mini/casual events....but again, only for a select and chosen few). So I did as he asked, in regards to his clearly written statement, but, before and since, he has gone directly against his own statement of what the landowner requested by "promoting" his many nonPDGA and 1 PDGA event(s) at PoliPoli Maui course and monthly mini events in forum and elsewhere.....over and over and over. But, HDG and others can't provide such relevant info and news? The PDGA also lists his only event on Maui, so, have they been told to remove or not promote Maui/PoliPoli DG too? HUH? Can the past and quietly resigned PDGA State Rep(Al Schwarz, or anyone else involved in DG, ie;lawyer,writer,promotor,CP,TD,PDGA,etc.) explain why the exclusionary double standard exists towards a fellow provider of professional DG support, news, participation, contributions, and info? Also, can ANYONE explain why Alan is allowed to yell from the Tbox in PDGA tourney after PDGA tourney, but others like myself(5714) are warned against, threatened with physical force by PDGA State Rep, and told or asked or warned to stop by others? HUH? I have loud obnoxious far reaching and controlling "Chi" too, but I choose to not present such at any/every tourney/hole out of "basic respect" for the "Spirit" and words of PDGA Rules, the other participants, and my own personal game. I learned this looooong ago...from the fine folks at Circular Productions. The one time I tried yelling like Al(after "clarifying with Hawaii StateRep" what conditions were for him/anyone to yell), I was asked AND told to stop "Chi-ing while Teeing"...so to speak......while he continued and continues. I think it's a volume/decibel thing, because my "Tee Chi" echoed at PoliPoli......not whether it's "purposeful" or "distracting/disturbing" as the rule states(801.01B). But he was loud too in his "self admitted purposeful" Chi sounds, while others and I were putting, approaching and driving on different holes, for years after my 2000PDGA event concerns....so I dunno....and NOBODY'S openly sayin'(PDGA, PDGA State Rep, TD's, CP's, players, sponsors, Crazy John, etc.)! In Feb 2003, after Mikey Roman's(and others') apology to me in private("for whatever he did", quote, he did not know, even though I was loudly espousing in repeated emails to him and many of his cohorts "specifically" what the probs were(lack of communication and misrespresentation of so many)) right before last round of 2003 Hawaii PDGA event, I started producing an interactive/dynamic opening page Flash animation where ALL the islands DG stuffs were to be featured and linked to by mousing over an island. This was just as I had "announced AND discussed" with other local DGing web oriented promoters while "Putting For Burgers" waaaay back at Al's Jan2001 PoliPoli Maui nonPDGA event. I had announced, and asked for website input, but there was little or no communication by local off-BigIsland DGers from '99 to present. In the meantime though, some of the various courses to be used/promoted in the animation have closed, or we have been requested not to play(Kona,Kokohead,UofH,Sand/sewer Island, etc), many many have claimed they knew nothing about Hawaii Disc Golf website or support over the years(huh?), and some or one of these guys that I am trying to help are still controlling hawaiidiscgolf.com web address, avoiding simple straightforward questions about their endeavors(7 repeats of same simple single Kokohead course existence/status questions, while I'm getting run-around words and grief in forum about my desire to "confirm" the news, but it too has since been removed from forum)......while they present to so many that they have apologized to me, and/or that I am "avoiding them", and/or that I am just stirring up trouble by asking relevant and timely questions in an attempt to collate and protect our common goals.........so it(animated Flash opening) has temporarily been shelved. I had accepted Mikey’s attempted apology before the final round of 2003 PDGA event, and ALL self initiated offers of mediation from other people, but they have since gone very quiet....after asking me to. The "self-initiated mediators" did not make ANY attempt to publically rectify, and instead just kept telling me to be quiet about the obvious problems. I then later(two weeks after 2003 PDGA event) discovered the registration of hawaiidiscgolf.com via a private domain registration proxy service, which hdga.org Members openly supported in the discussion forum. In their own words, they called this malicious and/or dividing cut-throat act by 'some DG local in hiding' as "foxy"...but that's gone from forum too. Seems more "squirrely" to me. Though I have not worked on it(Flash/dynamic animation) in over 11 months because so much islands’ DG is in General Disarray, Professed Chaos and Incapacitated Flux, you can see where I was headed with it(preview) at http://www.flex.com/~babapuna/swf/hdgopening.swf . This is clearly unfinished, with parts-aflyin-everywhere, and was just being templated, so the inaccurate Oahu course locations, pix and descriptions are just filler for development purposes, which were to be later filled in with accurate descriptions text etc. If you explore(mouseover) the islands, I think you can see what I have in mind though. (Note: After downloading and displaying, "right mouse click" on Flash animation, and "check off loop" to navigate/explore. The image(s) jaggedness(if any in "your" browser/viewer), is because I have yet to specify the overall size constraints via html source. Image jaggedness/pixelation will not occur in final. For reference, or proper viewing, it will be 400h x 600w.) I hate that I feel the need to have to say this, but, here goes, "This is still protected by copyright". If anyone has ideas, pix etc for possible inclusion, just send. Maps for course(s) and driving are to be included too, so send grfx, or link(address) where your maps and info are. Molokai course/site(and other locals) can be included-in/linked-from animation too!..(and their own page, text, images, etc at HDG)...unless they've been told different about what HDG intentions are, and then believe what they may have been told by others. Speaking of "copyrights", the Castaways have a "real tight and controlling" disclaimer/copyright notice, possibly drawn-up by an attorney(or possibly copied from somewhere else and then modified for their purposes), where they also speak of themselves having "expressed permission" to use some third party material. They too seem scared of intellectual property thieves and hackers. I do wonder. FOR THE RECORD, and as was recorded when Mike Leitch was in my home asking for my professional/personal/business/HDG promotional and grfx assistance with his 2003 Zone Driven PDGA event under his 2 day DGWN grfx deadline, neither they(Castaways), nor him(Mike L), produced the "uniquely wintertime island oriented DG saying/slogan", "Field Limit same as temperature.....72".......even though through several of their own new website and advertising references they act and speak as if they had. They can't even come up with their own original ad material, while bringing in a new local WebMaster to assist them in possible theft, and are wearing out(over using) what they did not create.............ie; someone else's intellectual property. In Aug/Sept 2002, they "obviously" liked and wanted HDG's and my abilities to produce, create, and publish island oriented professional grfx and words on short demand.....but not our supporting presence or participation at their recent PDGA and nonPDGA events. They can and should consider this a "demand to cease using and misrepresenting copyrighted materials without permission"...........please. The owner of Hawaii Disc Golf and I would have liked to use that unique slogan in it's future productions, but because someone else is NOW using in several promotional media, they may have limited and diminished it's value for future specific possible uses by us. I believe they don't understand or respect this though, because of their limited experience in several fields of professional representation....but of course there could another or other reason(s) for their current "repeated" usage by their new webmaster and/or grfx producer. I think he was asked to, but I could be wrong, he may have made these decisions on his own. This unique island oriented promo pitch/slogan was produced by the Owner of Hawaii Disc Golf, suggested for use by the HDG webmaster/MagAd/grfx producer(my self), and then, FINALLY approved by Mike Leitch for his and Mikey Roman's 2003 ZoneDriven PDGA sanctioned event. This saying is the derivative and creation and property of the owner of Hawaii Disc Golf. I did not ever give or imply the Castaways or ANYONE else has/had permission to use for purposes other than 2003 ZoneDriven PDGA event, because I did not have permission from originator to transfer copyrights. Just like I cannot transfer copyrights of background photo used for the 2002 DGWN ad(even though I am in photo, I cropped myself out.). We only had permission to use this saying and photo for the Hawaii Zone Driven ad I produced and that ran in the Steady Ed commemorative DGWN issue of 2002. NO OTHER USES HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY RESPECTIVE OWNERS OF THE AFOREMENTIONED MATERIALS FOR DG PROMOTION. That slogan is not my(5714) or the Castaways' property....it belongs to, and was created by, "Hawaii Disc Golf". Let it be clearly known, neither I or eyeb3d or HDG produced the latest Hawaii/Castaway DGWN ad from Sept2003 with Mike Leitch's Castaway image on it, because we were never asked under a two or any number day deadline....unlike last year. Last year, Mike L came to me two months before DGWN deadline asking for my professional grfx and promotional assistance, to which I happily and wholeheartedly agreed, but he could not get me the particulars(date time etc) until just two days before magazine deadline. This year, they did not create new Hawaii oriented DG slogan on their own with their own DG or other advertising experience, resources and/or greenouse/greenhorn know-how, but instead created poor/weak-but-adequate grfx for their big time international advertising needs, while using copyrighted textual/promotional material without permission and claiming otherwise. I "DID NOT", "DID NOT", "DID NOT" create the heavily pixelated 2003 Hawaii PDGA Zone Driven flyer/program, because I was purposely not asked, after discovering and discussing the 3rd HDG's multiple public problems. I did not do those flyers, and that's why the production was poor and pixelated....not because of "my(eyeb3d etc)" inexperience. We do MUCH BETTAH!!....with 27+ years computer grfx experience, and as a longtime profession. Anyone else see patterns?...If not, you will. What about the poor position(s) of the new sponsors that have been quietly and blindly led into this mess by others?....like Hawaii Disc Golf was....and others that are head of or provided their own gracious sponsoring endeavors. Rest assured, I am not being bunkagin by trying to sell bamboo pole holes under the guise of gathering money for courses, but HDG has thought about putting up a link to assist their attempts, because "direct" networking and communication is the name of the game.(In fact, I produced nice 3d bamboo polehole grfx looooooong ago for them, but I and my grfx have been cast away(bamboo target/grfx now in Flash animation preview sitting on shoreline)....while they do whatever it is that they do, with whatever it is they want, under whatever pretense they want.) What I suggest doing, to make money for getting a course or two locally, is this: Someone(me?, or some other "real" computer grfx "expert") will make and put up FREE plans and photos so anyone can build a similar bunkagin item out of whatevah materials they may have handy around the house or course. Then, instead of them wasting their hard-earned money on what we all know to be extreme shipping costs set by what many consider to be "another" island oriented conspiratorial monopolistic business(the shipping industry), they could build their own, and put the shipping money saved in an envelope to be sent to us/anyone for new course etc........if an outsider is really interested in assisting us in building funds for getting in a course or two. Otherwise, they should just build their own target out of pipes, PVC, buckets, bamboo, wood, bicycle, toilet parts, etc, as many on mainland(s) already have. They do make very good prize/awards "additions" to locals, or at mini events, but are more difficult for those that are traveling. Maybe if we give as "additional prize", we could then graciously pay for shipping for the visitors to get them back home. Pretty nice/cool prize/sponsor addition. Don't get me wrong, I "LOVE" the bamboo pole holes, they are "HAWAII".......and they are not cheap to ship! We/Whomevahs could graciously provide FREE simple plans for those that can't afford to help purchasing and paying for excessive shipping, and then clean simple open honest begging for profound financial assistance should be mo' plenny for those that can and are willing to help us get a public course or two. (Just my simple straightforward no BS idea.) I KNOW, many want to come play in PDGA events in Hawaii(today and 15 years ago), and may be willing to help the islands get a permanent course.(from what has been announced at local PDGA events, we have 2 mainland DG sponsors that were willing to provide baskets etc, as long as we had land that was "open to the public". Unimproved land on BigIsle is still CHEAP! PDGA may want to look into. $2.00 from each Member would be about 10-12K based on actual yearly renewals, which could be used to buy land. Next , build clubhouse; next etc. I wonder if other PDGA Members would voluntarily or with a PDGA gun-to-their-head(mandatorily) add 2-5 dollars in registration towards an island based PDGA course.....if some "really" want a perm course....and considering our "unique and distinct situation" out here.) Regarding lack of Oahu PDGA events, I do not understand why Oahu has never run such an event, and especially when they are claiming so much(20+yrs) professional DG ability, capacity, players and experience. As of April 2004, there still has not been a PDGA sanctioned event held or scheduled on Oahu....ever. I don't get it, though I've been told they have a hard time acquiring land for PDGA events, while they undoubtedly advertise that they have several courses and space for their 20+ years of private monthlies, gatherings, clubs, etc.....on public and private land etc. With all their publicized claims of DG experience and leadership/support, with Oahu having more than ten times the population of the Big Isle, and with the numerous clubs, orgs and listed places to play, I find it sad, disturbing, and unbelievable that no PDGA events have been held there. But, it is true. Hmmm. I do wonder why. Since my June 99 arrival and many DG questions about why the island DG scene was so fractioned and factioned, and my Aug'99 stated desire and acts to help sponsor PDGA events out here, and since my Sept 99 publicised acts to form a "common ground" web entity named "Hawaii Disc Golf" for all island DGers to promote whatever they were doing(Flyin'Hawaiians,PunaGold,KonaDGStuffs,WaimeaDGstuffs,OahuDGStuffs,MauiDGStuffs,Etc...whatevahs), I am proud to say, "There have been PDGA sponsored events EVERY YEAR in Hawaii since my '99 arrival.....and these guys are at least now PUBLICLY APPEARING TO BE WORKING AND ACTING TOGETHER". COOL! That's quite a change since '99, when others and I were repeatedly told "the market on islands was not big enough to advertise or maintain a consistent/advertised/published monthly/weekly DG schedule", "there's never been PDGA event on BigIsle", and "criss-crossing holes in PDGA and mini events are fine(along with other things), 'cause we do things differently", and "purposeful yelling on release is OK for State Rep, but not you", and "we've always rewarded, awarded, admired, applauded and memorialized local PDGA rules violators during local tourneys", and "there's only been one Hawaii PDGA event since it's 1976 inception", and "Oahu AND Maui guys don't like BigIsle guys, so it's tough to get them to support our events and bring their baskets". At the least, and in clear sight, some things have changed....since '99. While I and others don't hear these claims or statements openly made or espoused anymore, and there have been PDGA events on BigIsle every year since ’99, there are still other VERY IMPORTANT AND VITAL issues yet to be resolved. I DO NOT KNOW WHY AS A PLAYER AND A "SPONSOR" to "every Hawaii based PDGA event since '99", OTHERS AND I HAVE BEEN PUBLICALLY TREATED SO POORLY; why so many different landowner/sponsor requests were ignored; why public instructions were posted on how to get around the landlord requests/requirements; why rules infractions were promoted, applauded, rewarded and memorialized repeatedly at ALL Big Island and Maui PDGA sanctioned events in 1997, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and possibly 2004(?,I did not attend either event of 2004, I was never informed or notified of them. I have been cast away....so to speak....and so to be.), after my and others many openly stated concerns about such; why these issues were removed from the HDGA.org open discussion forum and deemed untimely or irrelevant by it's current leaders and/or Members...........or why I have been labeled and libeled a "disruptive force" for openly asking/begging for simple communication and cooperation towards professional DG promotion and problem resolution. Maybe someone could openly explain such.....but then again, maybe some will further ignore openly discussing such important matters(such as pertinent/relevant and still timely requests from PDGA,UofH,DLNR,Rices,CityAndCountyOfHonolulu,MackenzieCP,HawaiiDiscGolf,5714,etc),.......and/or then maybe in addition, some may try to censor further "sponsor" and/or "player" discussions/questions about "ACTUAL" sad islands' DG history and facts. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but this carcass is starting to smell because it's just lying here while so many ignore and do NOTHING to clean up the mess "they" made in their own, mine(eyeb3d/5714),the PDGA's, Hawaii Disc Golf's, and many other sponsors' name(s). On Nov 28 1999, according to current public web records, just a few weeks after I created and then announced in various forums(in person at BigIsle minis, in emails to mainland, and in phonecalls abroad) the "Hawaii Disc Golf" persona/website/purpose, public record CLEARLY shows that PunaGold.com attempted to rename their "Puna Gold Disc Golf" page to "Hawaii Disc Golf". The internet’s public records indicate the website was referencing a contact address to Rob Nasworthy and the PunaGold.com address was registered to a fellow local DGer name Bill "Something?(nice guy)", but the last time I saw him(Bill ?)(not "Bicycle Bill") at the course(I believe late 2001) was after a long hiatus by him from local DG, and he was yelling at MikeL as he walked away, "You can't do that". What "that" was...I don't know....Mike did not say....and he did just shrug and explain it off as "Bill just being mad" when asked. I don't know what happened, and maybe Mike will publically say...so as to clear up any confusion. Now, punagold.com belongs to someone in NewJersey selling Noni juice....so I don't know what happened to Puna Gold DG... a.k.a., another honorable DGer that had openly questioned the local interpretation of the rules too. I never saw Bill support any of the irresponsible acts, and I did previously see him openly voice his opposition to some. It was around this time(sept/nov 99) that Mr Nasworthy had discussions with me in front of several witnesses and local DGers, requesting that we could all be better served by "me(HDG)" changing my original "Hawaii Disc Golf" name to "Disc Golf Hawaii"....because he said "that would be a better search term" than the one that I "had said"......and "had already decided"....would be best, "Hawaii Disc Golf". The words between us were terse, but gentlemanly...business-like. I reluctantly changed website name to what the locals were asking for, "Disc Golf Hawaii", creating new grfx etc, while patiently waiting for further input from them, only to find out in Sept2002 that since early 2001, these same BigIsle folks had joined and were now supporting the "Hawaii Disc Golf" Association on Oahu. Also at that time(Sept/Nov99), a GoogleSearch(and others) for "hawaii disc golf"(in quotes) yielded only us(HDG), now there are several local non-affiliated parties "obviously" vying for placement relevance under the HDG word group and name. What's the other locals' simple reason(ing) behind their purposely extended and name controlling metatagging/keywording and discussions since then? Cooperation and Unity? Inexperience? I chose that name in 99 because NO ONE ELSE WAS USING ANYTHING CLOSE. I did not want to "cyber-war" or "play pathetic sad little malicious games"....in my open attempt to form some "common ground"........and I STILL DON'T!!!! I just tried to provide some NONPARTISAN support and exposure, in contrast to the individual islands(') separating orgs/clubs, divisive words, lack of PDGA events, and physical distance. I now believe that Mr Nasworthy was surreptisciously attempting to use that name himself, in concert with others......after I clearly explained(announced) my original non-partisan "usage" and "repeatedly announced ideas". Even though he no longer is publishing his attempt, the public record of his published attempt to use that name in concert with others after my original usage is clear and cannot be removed from public archives and scrutiny......unfortunately for ALL involved. As I said above, in early 2001 many of the same people that I had announced HDG website and nonpartisan assistance to locally in '99 and Maui early '01, formed another organization on Oahu named "Hawaii Disc Golf ASSociation", with many Maui and BigIsle Members from early on...including Mr Nasworthy(his and MikeL's HDGA.org Membership #'s are in the 20's). For some reason they NEVER mentioned by name(HDGA) or announced at ANY PDGA or nonPDGA event I attended until Sept of 2002.....just days after I produced, published, and sent off the grfx for their 2 day DGWN mag ad deadline.....and after I gave $40.00 for entry into 2003PDGA event. All during this time, I was participating in ALL DG(PDGA or not) events I could find out about(tough sometimes), and at the locals request I "acted" as Course Pro at Mackenzie, sponsoring ALL PDGA and other events from "Hawaii Disc Golf" website, and tourney setup/takedown/bunkajinbuilding, etc. HDG and I helped and participated where we could....and was allowed or asked. I did not think or know that some started promoting under HDG name in 2001, after they asked me change my HDG website name....just like I did not think some local would then later(nov2002) try to "sneakily" register hawaiidiscgolf.com. Upon Mike Leitch's informing the Big Isle locals at Wailoa in Sept 2002 of the(3rd) "Hawaii Disc Golf" association/group, I repeatedly attempted to make contact with the listed Hawaii Disc Golf Association website operator in an attempt to coordinate our similar names and mission.....and to talk about their illegal modification/representation of PDGA and HDG grfx intentions/abilities in HDG name, and to discuss their openly contradictory disclaimer statement in HDG name. But after several failed attempts at clear and open communication by me, it was later(week or two) announced at Wailoa by Mike Leitch, "Mikey Roman just usually will not respond to emails"(even though this communication method was how they were advertising and promoting under my original HDG name), and upon my further questioning about their use of "Hawaii Disc Golf" name, Mike L announced "Hawaii Disc Golf(myself, the owner, and other locals) should leave the issue alone" for two reasons: I've heard several rumours about a DGing attorney on islands, and have openly asked some who it is, but I have never received the answer, and he/she sure has not been proud to let it be publicly known that their valuable services might be available to anyone/some in the local DG scene. We could ALL use some protection, experience and professionalism right about now.....if there is one proud of his/her abilities. I "really" don't know whom it may be that gave legal advice to HDGA.org.....if at all....as was claimed.....but I do know I did not mention or threaten with "legal positioning" of name control first. REALIZE.................HDG was cornered......as a sponsor. I do know that if there really was an attorney to assist the 3rd Hawaii Disc Golf persona, they were openly contradictory in the publishing of the opening page disclaimer in the original Hawaii Disc Golf name, where they stated, from THEIR WEBSITE ACTUALLY DEDICATED AND PRODUCED FOR "PROMOTING DG", it(their DG oriented website in HDG name), was "not implying permission to play DG"....though they listed their courses in parks and elsewhere, along with "their" many nonPDGA and mini/monthly DG events, many local clubs, and claims of local DG accomplishment. This "possible" attorney was also seemingly very inexperienced or possibly unscrupulous if they approved the modified PDGA logo as theirs(mine?). After the discovery of all this HDG misrepresentation and manipulation, I said "HUH?"......and "WHOA!!"......but VERY VERY NICELY...at first......I even became HDGA Member#80 to show my support for our "seemingly" common mission to support ALL island based DG under the HDG name. Subsequently, the PDGA State Rep and others fought and argued hard to keep the Hawaii Disc Golf name, the illegally modified PDGA logo as theirs(mine?), and the contradictory disclaimer attached to the front page of their site in the HDGa name.....but, the "listed" website owner(Mikey Roman), would not respond through most of this....just like Mike Leitch had previously and publically clearly warned/explained to us BigIslers. Since then though, they have changed MANY MANY MANY of their previous public position(s) in Hawaii Disc Golf's name, image and persona, and they have changed their name to "Oahu Disc Golf" or maybe "Honolulu Disc Golf Association", and seem NOW to be willing to imply that they have been promoting and participating and playing in DG events and Hawaii parks for 20+ yrs....and are still currently doing so..and that is "actually(and virtually)" what their website is about...."inviting and implying DG play in parks, universities, privatelands, etc, via their many orgs and clubs". I don't know what they "thought" they were(or "actually" were) "implying" from their site while using the "Hawaii Disc Golf" name and the modified PDGA logo image....since they were self-claiming to be "not implying play of DG in Hawaii parks" and elsewhere. Maybe they could explain what they were "implying".......or doing.........under the HDG or ANY OTHER name. I don't know why we have "so many clubs" now, and for so many years, when we don't have ONE SINGLE PUBLIC COURSE. What's their point?...or multiple points?....and especially if they feel like they cannot or should not imply play. Many tribes and Chiefs ready to rule and war, but no genuine reservation(s) to war or rule over or foster. That's been "one" of my arrow-sharp points since '99. What's their's? Was/Is their site just for their bragging about no PDGA events for 20+years?.....or is it just to satisfy their ego of their imagined grand local DG accomplishments before ‘99?....or was it possibly just presented sooooo pooooorly and illegally in soooo many ways in order to make HDG, orb3d/yb3d/eyeb3d and me look bad? TWISTO-DE-FACTO approach to DG promotion and legal protection....while representing and/or misrepresenting someone else's persona? I'm also trying to figure out what they expected from me or HDG then, 2002 and 2003, when we discovered their clear multiple misrepresentation(s) of our and others' valuable support....and/or what they expect from us now in 2004. Do they just expect me, others and HDG to go away? Now, and after much hard work and harsh and direct words on a vehement scotsman’s, Hawaii Disc Golf’s, and others’ behalf, it's gettin' mo' real 'round here.....and their club(s) is/are no longer stating or presenting numerous contradictory and misreprentational and illegal DG promotions, positions and suggestions under the HDG name. There were other issues addressed to the then current PDGA State Rep, and then to the PDGA itself regarding many open rules infractions. Such as: purposeful: bagkicking, cussing, loudly yelling from teebox while others play and putt(but I and others can't), and the TD, the players', and PDGA State Rep's support, rewarding, applauding and memorialization of these acts. Even though I was libeled and labeled a "disruptive force" during these YEARS of local tourney's for openly voicing my opinions and relevant concerns """BETWEEN""" rounds and in their discussion forum representing the HDG name, in emails, and at State Meeting, I am VERY proud to say that at least, "I was never 'awarded', or 'accepted', or 'nominated for' a 'prize for purposeful rules infractions' """DURING""" Hawaii PDGA rounds". "NEVER!!!" MANY HERE CANNOT SAY THAT. ALL TD's/CP's HERE(and unfortunately some newer sponsors) HAVE "OPENLY" PROMOTED AND SUPPORTED THESE ACTS SINCE LONG BEFORE I ARRIVED.....according to their many proud announcements at PDGA awards banquets. But hopefully, they have argued to maintain this memorializing just due to their own self proclaimed ol' timer inexperience, because I don't want to think they would support these acts purposely. I CAN SAY(and easily demonstrate) THAT I AND OTHERS HAVE OPENLY FOUGHT HARD AGAINST SUCH ACTS....for years. Since I was called a "disruptive force" by locals AND PDGA for voicing my concerns between PDGA rounds, at casual mini events, in emails, in the DG oriented/advertised discussion forum in HDGa name, and the local meetings, and was thankfully never nominated to receive ANY of the MANY "Best/Worst/Whatevahs Rules Infraction" prize(s), I am wondering what the "Official" rules/requirements were to be receive "the prize(s)". What did it take to be "nominated"?....since I was labeled so "disruptive", and was NEVER nominated to recieve a prize for purposefull rules infractions during PDGA event(s). Whose AND what criteria established the contradictory and vague parameters for labeling/libeling some "disruptive", and rewarding/awarding, applauding and memorializing others? Was it singular personalities that made these self destructive and non-PDGA decisions over and over, year after year, as some besides myself protested, or were they made as a local "professional" group....with support from the PDGA....in ALL PDGA HAWAII EVENTS? Huh? Even with ALL their advertised professional DG experience, the local Ol' Timers may not have realized what they were doing.....and even though they had someone like me(and others before me) constantly reminding them. I would like to see if these guys are STILL proud enough of these acts to publish ALL the past winners of merchandise and recievers of public accolades and praise for purposeful rules infractions at past Hawaii PDGA sanctioned events, and I wonder if the PDGA stands behind them too.....for the record. Got List? I'm assuming the recipients feel like they deserve the current erroneous ranking(s), rating(s), prize(s), money, and the PDGA memorialized records which are being presented worldwide. I guess they feel like they performed fairly and admirably, and should maintain their current publicised ratings and status', since they are not reponsibly asking for clarification and resolution according to the "official" PDGA rules. Maybe someday they(PDGA and locals) will publicly say how they feel towards my and others MANY original 1999 to present concerns, for the sake of ALL.....and just as I am doing. Are the sponsors proud(or even aware) to have their merchandise awarded and promoted for such, and are the recipients and awardees of these prizes still proud of their repeatedly publicised admiration and behaviour in a PDGA event? WHAT.......me worry? In 2001, I "reluctantly" wrote the PDGA, putting my own butt on the line, after putting my hard-earned money up at several disturbing island PDGA and non-PDGA events, and after receiving "the most cusswords ever in an email". This telling and predictive email did not arrive from someone that was mad or cussing at me, but from someone that was VERY UPSET at the unruly controlling situations and acts of TD's/CP's/PDGAStateRep and others at past Hawaii PDGA events in direct contrast to the PDGA rules. This participant wrote me asking for help after he had put his own money up and DNF'ed in some Hawaii PDGA and nonPDGA events. I've never DNFed, even when ganged up against, or injured. He is a VERY good player(current Hawaii State Overall Disc Champ), open and vocal in his opinions and concerns(like me), has participated in PDGA events on mainland, winning Open Pro money, but he was/is not a PDGA Member, and stated that he was coming to me because of my past "professional" play, experience and attitude. His email clearly indicates that he believed that others(leaders) had, and might continue, to try to control him, others or I. I believe it has happened....just as he "previously" warned. I do not know his public reason for no longer supporting his previous disturbing position and claims against the island DG leaders....even though they have lived upto his own seemingly precognitive and truly disturbing words. I believe he no longer "publicly" stands by his previous position, because the PDGA "openly supports" the numerous island leaders erroneously and consciously promoting and rewarding rules infractions for years after I wrote them, while they(PDGA) support the local PDGA State Rep asking others not to do what he was doing(loud purposeful Chi), and because by distancing himself from me, he would be welcome to play and participate locally....where I have been repeatedly physically threatened/bullied and run-off and driven away from mini/casual events by group, while also being openly repeatedly slandered at PDGA sanctioned events by it's own TD(s)/Rep(s). I archived his email, because it was sooooo unique, telling, and disturbing, even for my longtime experience in various web-based businesses and DG, and I then reluctantly wrote the PDGA asking for their help. The PDGA responses since 2001 have been absolutely contradictory, yet I have not published their inconsistencies......AT THEIR WRITTEN REQUEST. I do hope they will correct "their official records" regarding my original verbal warnings/concerns between and during PDGA sanctioned rounds for 801.01B rules violation("purposely" yelling from teebox while others and myself play and putt) to the PDGA State Rep in 2000 PDGA Sanctioned Hawaii event(and EVERY Hawaii PDGA event I have attended since), or at the least, show that the records are pending investigation and official resolution. This way, their(PDGA) leaders and Reps are not continuing to misrepresent themselves, Hawaii Disc Golf, or myself. I do hope they will address the ever-ongoing awarding and memorializing of rules infraction(s) too. Ignorance of rules, regs, laws and sponsor requests, along with the PDGA's quiet or unknowing support of such, has not worked here for many many years...as is obvious. I do know that the PDGA and locals have viewed and labeled me personally as a "disruptive force", while the PDGA reminds me of possible censuring actions they could enforce, AND, they have not stated why they would possibly "support" this drastic position. They(PDGA) self admittedly just repeated what they had heard secondhand from da locals, where I've been hit from ALL sides(sponsor,player,business,personal). They(PDGA) did however ask me not to show how they have responded in regards to years of rules violations by State Rep and others since the first Hawaii PDGA event('97).....and in regards to other vitally important issues too. They have asked me to remain silent about their position(s) for about a year now, after reminding me of possible censure, but they have not said why that is advantageous to either them, I, or ANY OTHER PDGA or NOT Member or sponsor. Repeated irresponsible acts by their Reps has not worked here yet, so I don't know what they expect to happen out here with their self initiated and requested silent continuance of such. I believe, the PDGA was/is asking/instructing me not to repeat or publish their statements, so they could preserve their own name, image and reputation in Hawaii and elsewhere(just as I am trying to do for/with them since '99), along with their still currently listed State Rep's, at the total and public sacrifice of mine.....and other players and sponsors' too. Four+ years of participation/patience/silence/money/labor/etc on my and others' part to support the PDGA’s endeavors and Representatives on the islands, followed by 3+ years of limited action on their(PDGA) part is enough.....and especially considering how poor this market is in "their" potential "DG Paradise"...as they refer to it. They(PDGA) have repeatedly admitted that they do not understand why things are so poor in Hawaii regarding their 20+ years lack of events, courses, and local Membership #s. I do hope they can publicly respond to these now 7year old issues(or is that 27yrs, PDGA founded in '76). I also hope they will set the record(s) straight regarding my personal and Hawaii Disc Golf's name, support, and reputation. Applauding, awarding, promoting and memorializing rules violations according to some unknown standard at a PDGA event is not right in any way, and neither myself or HDG or OTHERS have EVER supported OR promoted such. Nor have we or do we support or promote open(or ANY!!) avoidance of simple communication and/or sponsor requirements. Allowing one person(PDGA STATE REP!!!) to ignore the rules("purposeful" Chi yelling), while saying that others can't do the same, is WRONG also. Yet, some of these things have been done at every Hawaii based PDGA event I attended....and probably since the first '97 PDGA sanctioned Hawaii event.....with much prolonged public silence and private contradictions from the PDGA, local TD's, local CP's....and with my and other's vocally vehement and written disapproval. For the record, I did NOT notify the PDGA when the HDGA.org was illegally using a modified PDGA logo for their own vague and self stated contradictory purposes in my graphically oriented website business’ name. I to this day do not know who contacted the PDGA about this issue, but someone did, so it indicates someone else out here was concerned too. Have they(the Unknown Inquisitor) been publically chastised for such by so many? Maybe they could "publically" step forward, to relieve me and HDG of the scurrilous public allegations...instead of fearfully sitting in silence. I have been "repeatedly and publicly" blamed for contacting PDGA about this.....just like when I was repeatedly and wrongfully blamed for Mike and Mikey not being able to accept money in the park for the 2003 ZoneDriven Hawaii Championships, and for macheteing Mackenzie before others actually came in with their weedeater, machetes and chainsaws, and for cussing out DNF player during play at 2003 PDGA event....and other numerous false public accusations against HDG and/or I specifically. For the record...again...HDG and/or I have not EVER notified ANY state agency of ANY other DGer's actions or plans. Nor have we EVER cleared or approved clearing of DLNR land. In a reference to the HDG website, and in an unrelated response to one of my openly voiced concerns, someone from Oahu told me in their own forum in the HDGa name that it was "illegal to throw Frisbees in any Hawaii State Park", which according to their own words, also meant Mike and Mikey could not accept money for "their" upcoming 2003 PDGA event(or others), while they themselves were doing so and promoting such for many years. I never mentioned ANYONE "accepting money", etc, and did I not start DG out here 20+ yrs ago, so they must have realized what they have been doing all along(erroneously accepting money for 20+ years), while I have been getting openly blamed for such(notifying DLNR, keeping TD's from accepting money at Mackenzie2003 PDGA event and elsewhere, or not obeying the mentioned Frisbee law....but, I dunno how they tied me to ANY of this...without first tying their 20+ years too) at their past PDGA and nonPDGA gatherings, but of course, all of this has since been removed from discussion forum too. I did not bring this(or many other) issue(s) to light. I did not make the laws. I do not enforce the laws. I have just tried to ""FOLLOW"" others' self-Pro-claimed 20+yr lead and support....without getting led dangerously astray into "pro-moted" and obvious ignore-ance, obfuscation and deceit. But, after my patient participation for years here, and after my written and repeated requests in HDGA.org discussion forum in 2002 to adhere to rules and regs and respect ALL property, and after purposeful course destruction at Wailoa, and after the local DGers then came to Mackenzie State Park with weedeaters, machetes, and chainsaw, clearing park and painting the trees, (while I clearly voiced my opposition as a kama'aina citizen, PDGA Member, HDG Rep, and Mackenzie CP), an ENFORCEMENT OFFICER REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS AND PROPERTY OF THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF LAND AND NATURAL RESOURSES """APPROACHED ME""" WITH QUESTIONS AS TO WHY THE COURSE/PARK(Mackenzie) WAS DAMAGED IN VARIOUS WAYS. I mentioned no names as to who directed and/or performed the acts of concern, and "actually" built some positive repoire with him, by reassuring him of my past experience as a responsible promotor/TD/CP in other mainland State/County/City/Private parks, and to the positive character and discipline building nature of the sport of golf. He understood that I understood, and graciously but sternly gave us permission to "use" park, under certain conditions, but NOT "ABuse"......like so many had. He clearly stated that he could have impounded vehicles and equipment(weedeaters,chainsaws,machetes,DISCBAGS) of ALL tourney participants for evidence(visitors too)...along with handing out citations to ALL! According to Hawaii DLNR EO, we were closer to being shutdown than most visitors or locals realize. That would not have been pretty for the islands...the visitors.....the sponsors....the CP's.....the TD's.....HDG....or the PDGA...and it is "EXACTLY" what I was trying to avoid by REPEATEDLY AND CLEARLY voicing my opinion(s) and concerns......before many of the acts occurred, and looooong before his troubling questions/concerns came to me. He does not make the laws either.....but.....HE DID ASK ME TO PASS HIS CONCERNS/INSTRUCTIONS ON TO ALL. Rest assured, for the sake of sooooo many, I did. Many still openly choose to ignore his request(my relay of such), as is "CLEARLY" evident by the still taped trees at Wailoa State Park. But of course, as with sooooo many things around here, some may try to pro-claim ignorance of such common and clearly expressed knowledge.........like soooooo many have until very recently with the HDG website, existence, and purpose......along with the PDGA Rules..........and as they were/are supposedly working in unison as a cohesive, professional, and well experienced DG group. I wish we could leave them striped too(at Mackenzie too), but he(EO) said we can't, and so I have a mind to pull the tape at Wailoa as he requested, but I(and ALL others) am being patient waiting for other CP(s)/TD(s)/PDGAReps to understand and comply on their own initiative(too late?) and courses. It's not my call. I did as asked, while others are doing as they wish. In early-mid 2003, I sent an email out to many locals and the PDGA containing the business card of the Enforcement Officer, what the conditions were for us to play DG in DLNR controlled land and parks, and what he had said regarding the locals' clearing of course/park for their events....the course that they(locals) had asked me to be CP at....and of course the one that I personally was representing via what was my own business' website. Of ALL the self-Pro-claimed experienced locals, there was ONLY one positive response from one Hawaii individual acknowledging the DLNR EO's request and statements. That was from Andre Noques! Thanks Andre!! AFTERWARDS, and since that time(2003), and for no apparent reason at all(other than to subvert land sponsor requests and continue their own nonPDGA clubs/activities/gatherings/monthlies/etc), someone went to the public HDGA.org discussion forum, and gave not-so-defacto instructions on how to ignore and subvert the important requests of "Security Officers" at UofH. Spooooooky! I wish more DGers here understood the importance of following rules and regs, and promoted and awarded and memorialized such....as opposed to the opposite. Our various players, sponsors and potential future players and sponsors might like that. Afterwards(a week or more of silence), and after "re"-sending DLNR EO concerns to PDGA and others, thankfully for ALL, the PDGA recognized the importance of TD's, CP's and players honoring the landowner's requests and concerns, and sent a notice to State Rep and myself and others to be given/promoted to ALL potential island visitors and participants, regarding obeying the simple requests of the various landowners upon whose gracious support we depend. I posted it in the HDGA.org discussion forum, and sent copies to locals.....at the PDGA's written request to distribute. That really should not have been removed from HDGA.org discussion forum, and the not-so-defacto instructions for Security/sponsorship subversion should not have been posted at all. However, once the not-so-defacto instructions were posted, it would have been good for the experienced leaders to openly respond and counter such indiscrepencies, demonstrating genuine desire and clear ability to honor various sponsors and supporters, just as I did....as opposed to just removing all.....like ostriches with their omnipotent heads in the sand. It(PDGA Notice) was an "official request" from the PDGA, in regards to Hawaii DLNR laws and requests(other sponsors too), and the PDGA's Members' and Reps' position(s) related to, which I believe will remain timely and pertinent for ALL PDGA eternity. I still stand behind what the PDGA wrote, and I believe they do too, even if the leaders and Ol'Timers and/or Members of HDGA.org and various other local DG orgs don't, won't.....or feel like they shouldn't, can't, or don’t have to. But then again, at the State Meeting held at Mackenzie in Jan 2003, where I was graciously granted four whole minutes to address these 7+(maybe 20+) years of many concerns, the promoters on Oahu repeated, at my openly dumbfounded request, they "were not mainly interested in promoting 'PDGA' sanctioned events etc, but instead were going to promote more locally oriented DG endeavors", so I am unsure just what they are upto regarding the PDGA.....or regarding others who try to support the PDGA....other than what they proudly stated at PDGA State meeting. I do know however, as do many others, that since my repeatedly stated concerns and acts to promote Hawaii based PDGA events since '99, the new Castaways club website is now the "only" other island DG website to directly support the PDGA by publishing a link to the PDGA. Besides the PDGA links at the bottom of every HDG page, and the BRAND NEW Castaways link, there are NO OTHER LINKS to PDGA from locals. I guess the Castaways FINALLY figured someone out here besides me had better publically support the PDGA. Baby steps. I(and others) was(were) previously informed that the Ultimate Players Association(UPA) has """NEVER""" sanctioned an event on the isles, while the local ultimate scene(HULA) puts on the largest non-UPA event in the world. Because Ultimate ain't my thing, and I don’t hang with that crowd, I just don't know if this all controlling HULA vs UPA island discsport monopoly is true, so do your own research, and draw your own conclusions. I too am just repeating what I have heard secondhand from da locals. Because this local exclusionary monopolization in Ultimate may be absolutely true, and because I was "openly" and "proudly" told this scenario by old time island Ultimators, I believe this same group of ultimate/DG players and promoters would like to have the same with the PDGA, ie; NO or LITTLE PDGA, but plenny HDGA and other locally monopolizing disc stuffs........and basically they "announced" and then "clarified/confirmed" this in front of sooooo many at last year's meeting! Again, I was truly stupified by their original statement at so called 2003 PDGA State Meeting, and so I immediately asked them to "clarify in front of everyone". They readily and clearly did, which was also immediately verbally supported by the PDGA State Rep. Since then, I have come to realize that this may explain why only one(1) PDGA event had ever been done out here before my '99 arrival, why NO PDGA events have EVER been on Oahu, why so few PDGA(but plenny other nonPDGA) events have been on Maui and Oahu, why so little PDGA stuffs are supported and promoted overall, and why so many of my personal and business' names and reputation have suffered so at the hands of local DG control, individuals, and orgs since '99. Hawaii Disc Golf and I support the PDGA....first. We believe it to be the best and most powerful DG club or organization on this planet and in this universe to support. We believe that there are MANY PDGAers that would love to come compete/play in Hawaii without having to hide from security, landowners, and those in local exclusionary DG control.....or break any laws. Then of course, in addition, it would be nice to be able to FREELY TALK STORY about such without physical threats, or quiet-little-sneaky-snake DG, personal, and/or business oriented repercussions, and/or without the reaffirmations of possible censure and open public exclusion. ALL THIS COHESIVE, ACCUMALATIVE, AND PURPOSEFULL SILENCE DOES NOT CONVEY OR REPRESENT PROFESSIONALISM.....but for some reason, it is clearly what many do, support, and desire out here. I do not know why the PDGA still lists Alan Schwarz as the current State Rep, when I have assurances in an email from the PDGA dated middle of 2003 stating that Alan suddenly left his position in early 2003.......but without public notice from ANYONE(PDGA,DGWN,HDGA,ALAN,ETC). For some reason, he has been listed as Hawaii PDGA Rep to current in PDGA publications(ever since the time the PDGA informed me of his sudden and unexpected 2003 departure). I do not know why they still claim him in their own publication(s).....while they give the Hawaii Disc Golf site opposite and totally contradictory and misleading representations for us(HDG and 5714) to present. Because I have told many about Alan's sudden and unexpected early 2003 departure, I hope the PDGA will support what they wrote to me and HDG, instead of making it appear as if HDG was/is incorrect and Alan has been State Rep, when according to their private and HDG's publicised reality, he was not. I was NEVER NOTIFIED of ANY 2003 state meeting to replace him, and he did not give any published reason for stepping down, so what’s up? Some actual AND potential sponsors are wondering why PDGA and it's local Reps counter my and HDG's news/info for so long....while we are asked to sit quietly. Maybe the PDGA can explain why Alan was listed as State Rep through 2003...and why I was asked to remain silent about many PDGA responses. Things are soooo messed up around here, we had NO PDGA State Rep for most 2003...according to PDGA correspondence. Their(PDGA's) public records and acts counter their statement(s) in their own constitution and rules to HDG several times, yet we have been asked/told to remain silent about such......which we "clearly" believe in turn misrepresents, distorts and restricts HDG acts and ability to conduct business, voicing of concerns, and our ability to provide ACCURATE island oriented DG news, support, participation, and info. I(and the owner) do not appreciate some LOWLIFE "foxily" hoarding "Hawaii Disc Golf's" intellectual property(hawaiidiscgolf.com) for more than 16 months, while they re-present "Hawaii Disc Golf" as if we are conducting business by hiding behind a possibly illegal web proxy service, making it appear as if we may be performing questionable business practices or tactics and/or providing false or misleading news or info. I believe, according to ICANN requirements and the DMCA of 2001, it is illegal to hide the owner of a website's identity, and I have NEVER registered a website in hiding. As with the music/file swapping/theft game, just because someone on the web offers a way around ICANN and DMCA requirements, it does not nessecarily mean that it is a legal process.......as I believe it is not. I WILL NOT DO BUSINESS THAT WAY, nor will I support those that do, or recommend someone to do either. Nor will I put up a website that is designed around and promoting something that I claim I am not implying....like was done and then supported by MANY others in HDG(a) name. That would be NUTS, and I believe totally and obviously misrepresentative and illegal...even if it was drafted or approved by some quiet attorney. In addition, for some really whacko reason, just 2 days after sending out an official "cease and desist order" in Nov2002 to the then current PDGA State Rep(Al Schwarz), and many others of da' local DG scene, regarding what I believe to be their MANY attempts to control my name(s), business' and reputation through several public and private ever-shifting-overlapping-disc/DG-memberships of clubs and organizations since '99, someone went to a webaddress proxy(hiding) service and registered hawaiidiscgolf.com in what may be an absolute conspiracy against Hawaii Disc Golf and/or myself. ANYONE know who registered and paid for this on their credit/debit/check card? We'll see how well the perps stick together on this one. Maybe though, like with myself and others, just one person at a time will be culled/excluded/cast-away and take the fall, while graciously trying to help and support the others. I'm wondering if someone else is now in a funky position too, after following others' misdirected and inexperienced lead. (If we all silently fade away one at a time, out of fear and mob rule, then no outsider knows why we have so few players, courses, or PDGA sanctioned events for so long. Some out here have been proud and think it’s funny to call this method "Survivor DG"....as they cast away and intimidate others, and protect their private group nonPDGA agenda(s).) For more than 16 months, they have not done anything with hawaiidiscgolf.com address, other than keeping the legitimate rights holder from using it, ignoring contact and demands from HDG Reps, while clearly misrepresenting HDG's business, positions, reputation, etc; along with similar things regarding my personal and other endeavors(yb3d etc) and reputation. I do grfx, IT, and publishing work for many(book/album covers, Animation(s), 3d modeling/mapping, Networking and IT maintenence, special projects, etc) and nowhere near all are listed at eyeb3d.com. I don't have time or inclination to show off ALL my professional work/projects/endeavors/skills/etc for others or myself.....and I "really" don't appreciate others representing my intentions, business or abilities in this manner. I believe what they(whomevahs has domain control) are doing to "Hawaii Disc Golf", "eyeb3d" and myself personally is very illegal. They(whomever has control of the aforementioned domain) has no right to represent my years of hard work and/or others' business in that manner, and when it is discovered which group or individual is willing to represent ALL Hawaii based DG and myself in this way, rest assured, Hawaii Disc Golf will publicize the name(s) so as to repair/clear our and others' name(s) and reputation(s), and set the "PUBLIC" record straight. We believe this action should also be taken for the LONG TERM SAKE AND FUTURE of the "Professional" sport.....both locally and abroad. I’m concerned for whomever used their credit/debit/check card, and I wonder if others will stand behind them, or will they let that person stand/fall alone. Things must change further, for the real potential of the PDGA to exist o'er here. I would think that at some point the PDGA will look at the CLEAR records, and wonder why things are so weak and poor for them in golf paradise.......for sooooo long(I just got here in June '99....remember?). Maybe then, THEY will then step in, at the least making sure their minimum requirements are met.....or even possibly exceeded. WOW!!! This ongoing and frustrating exercise in futility has not been "fun" or "professional"...for sooooo many locally.......so they have just silently gone away. And it has been done here just like this for MANY years in the locally and weakly promoted name and image of the PDGA, and professional and casual DG in general. According to the PDGA, the ability to correct these many issues lie with the "local" DG leaders and DG "Ol' Timers"(whom barely supported the PDGA before and since '99)......which the locals say I am not, even though my "professionally registered and documented" PDGA promotional and participation experience far surpasses the ones openly making the claim. So I hope they have it all figured out....as the self-Pro-claimed longtime(20+years) leaders of totally lacking courses and unprofessional DG in Hawaii. The PDGA says that we should work it out locally, so they have tried to wash their hands of it(so to speak). Out here, it seems mob majority and fear rules.....not the Law, Sponsors', or PDGA rules. Now it's time to wash our hands. Got Soap? In my 25+yrs of professional contractual representational experience and oligations in various classified and non-classified positions of responsibility in both the public(government) and private sectors, I, Bobby Garner, PDGA #5714, Creator/Founder of "Hawaii Disc Golf", in addition to being Owner/Creator/Founder/COO/Administrator/Representative/Agent/Information,Security,Networking,TechnicalConsultant/Manager/ComputerGrfxProducer,Designer,Animator/Artist/YadaYadaYada of MANY differing business, endeavors, web and DG entities and personas, have NEVER made ANY attempt to keep ANY other lawful person, group, club, or entity from conducting legal business. And I never will. Nor do I do business "in hiding", or "by asking others to remain silent in supporting their openly and publically stated concerns or convictions", or "via evershifting and overlapping memberships of protectionist non-responsive and non-perceptive layers of proxy". Others and I however, will do our best to protect our common public and private interests and property from irresponsible and illegal acts and misrepresentation(s) in our name(s). What else do/did they expect?.....with all their experience. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't "publically" back me and other sponsors into a corner(since '99), and we won't have to "publically" fight to stand our personal, business, and DG ground. I initially handled these disturbing issues privately and succinctly, via the proper, advertised, and involved groups/individuals, but as many plainly see, to no avail. I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, SO PLEASE DO NOT CONSTRUE ANYTHING I WRITE, SAY OR DO AS "LEGAL ADVICE"....EVER!! DiscLamer Disclaimer: http://yb3d.com/disclamer.html Does anyone know or "really" care who has control of this address?: hawaiidiscgolf.com That would be a GREAT first step towards demonstrating a real and genuine desire to obtain/acquire/represent open transparency and cooperation amongst the islands...by the ol' timers...or whomever has control or "REALLY" cares. But, they may have used a newcomer or two to do their dirty work(grab/squat on domain name), so fear may be guiding them(ALL LOCAL DG REPS) away from open(any) resolution. Again, I dunno what they are doing as a "group" or "group of groups", and AGAIN I am asking....as a PDGA Member, CP, and as a Sponsor Rep. As has been so quickly, facetiously, and publically suggested several times over the past year or more by local CP's and TD's and some newer island sponsors, maybe we(HDG and me personally) should bring suit. I dunno though, maybe the vocal locals were serious in their "last resort" and negative suggestions of action against other DGers. As a sponsor, HDG really does not want to take legal action against ANY DGer or supporting organization, and nor do I(5714) as player, as is really evident by OUR YEARS OF PATIENCE/PARTICIPATION AND NUMEROUS OPEN REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO DISCUSS ISSUES WITH ALL AVAILABLE AND WILLING DG ENTITIES AND PARTICIPANTS. I have been repeatedly asked NOT to discuss any of these issues: at casual and Mini events; in discussion forum; with PDGA; between PDGA rounds; and was given four whole minutes at PDGA State Meeting to discuss these MANY years worth of issues. I AM WONDERING WHERE "THEY(locals,PDGA,etc)" SAY I SHOULD DISCUSS OR ATTEMPT TO RESOLVE THIS....since I have not been invited or notified of """"ANY"""" local DG happenins or events since months before Jan2003 PDGA event. I sure don't know where they got the ability, or why they wanted and chose, to limit my or others speech to four minutes according to some unknown protocol. It's not like we had a list of speakers to get through. We do have vitally important problems to resolve, but for some reason, they were more concerned with some being able to freely speak for more than 4 minutes, watching their watches, instead of directly resolving the disturbing issues. Is this a PDGA rule(4 min)....or was it just some arbitrary decision made by some group which I currently don't claim to be a part of or represent?....the same group(or group of groups) that others and I had sooo many problems with. They can and "do" discuss these things at ALL these places.....but I am to remain silent at ALL these places.....or else they all get in their cars and drive off to different course, or bully me as group, face-to-face, casting me away. I patiently and openly honored their group's clearly restricting 4 minute rule enforced and controlled by a newcomer Am, and did not force them to listen further, even though they clearly forced me to silence....at the "specific" place and time "they" said we should resolve these MANY MANY issues(State Meeting). Another double standard? In case they have not noticed, 4 minutes was not enough. Their arbitrary and ol timer rules combined with their capacity, experience, and blatantly supported limits on speech(meeting, forum, course, person, etc) did not resolve or correct the many years worth of mine and others' vocalized and written issues. I'm wondering where or when "they" say "I"(or anyone else) can speak freely about actual local DG issues. As a sponsor, we(Hawaii Disc Golf and 5714) are seeking assistance from anyone willing locally or abroad that is involved, or wants to become involved, and/or can help to resolve, these past and present public misrepresentations in HDG's, the PDGA's and sooooo many other sponsors' name(s).....and to get at least ONE SINGLE OPEN TO PUBLIC genuine polehole course ANYWHERE in "The Great State of Hawaii"....a.k.a. "Kingdom of Hawaii". As I stated in forum, it's hard to acquire sponsors when they "CLEARLY" see open exclusion, island and CP/TD oriented divisions, misrepresentation, ignore-ance, publicized/promoted instructions for obfuscation of sponsor requests, and coerced/colluded silence regarding such incidents....as opposed to them seeing the open and quick resolution(s) thereof. As a contributing sponsor, and potential sponsor, these positions are scary, and as a player too, yet the PDGA just sits and waits with so called 'clean hands', while it's Hawaii Reps and TD's maintain these disturbing, contradictory, and damaging positions for too many years. At this point, we are truly hoping those that are "directly" involved will respond to clean this mess publicly, just as it was made, whereby clearly demonstrating their desire and capacity towards cooperation and common purpose under PDGA rules, sponsor requests, and local law. We would prefer this, and still work towards such, as opposed to bringing suit to resolve and clear our and others' name(s), as has been suggested by several locally. "It's way past time for Hawaii based DG leaders and promoters to rise to the level of representing the best of the PDGA....as opposed to representing, promoting, memorializing, rewarding and then suggesting the worst." That's what I and HDG wanted and worked for since arriving, and we still do. I would assume because of ALL the courses and tourneys on the islands, and because of our unique situation out in the middle of the Pacific, the "PGA(Ballers)" recognize the potential paradisal market out here and have made an extra effort to support, promote, and protect their interests, and I would hope that the PDGA would do likewise......or maybe generate some "real interests(basketed PUBLIC courses)" to protect....so to speak. Oh, by the way, supporting of rules and law, and others who do, would be a good way to protect their advertised and very sporadic and limited interests here too. HELLO....we are the WORST OF ALL STATES....WOW.....WITH NOT A SINGLE HAWAII PUBLIC BASKET COURSE...WOW......and since the 2001 cussing-email-to-me concerned with sooo many other TD's/CP's/PDGARep's irresponsible and contradictory acts, I'm giving what I believe to be too many sad but valid reasons for such, while the PDGA has repeatedly said that they don't understand why things are so bad out here for the 20+ years. HINT HINT!!....in writing. The locals "chose" to remove their and my written discussion forum entries. One side ACTUALLY is being open and transparent, for the sake of all. While another side is "claiming" to be doing such, while actually hiding in censored group and individual silence, for the so-called "sake of all". Maybe someone out here can put in writing what they think I am missing in regards to the locals' many damaging public and private position(s)....if they think I am "out-of-line" or "disruptive". That might ACTually get "their" agendas(PDGA or not) moving towards higher ground. If this EXTREMELY PERTINENT AND FACTUAL AND DOCUMENTED INFORMATION AND FREE AMERICAN OPINION(s) is/are removed from the HDGA.org/OahuDiscClub(whomever the self-described and "censored American discussion forum" belongs to this week) discussion forum because it is deemed untimely or irrelevant, then, it will not matter. In an attempt to openly honor the PDGA Rules, Constitution and Spirit, along with the simple relevant and ONGOING requests of the MULTIPLE landlords and sponsors to respect their physical and intellectual properties, and to demonstrate ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY the intentions of myself and "Hawaii Disc Golf" to continue to ACTUALLY ADHERE TO AND RESPECT such, and in an ongoing attempt to have other island DGers, Reps and visitors understand, support and demonstrate a genuine desire and capacity to do the same, these concerns(this notice) will be sent to PDGA Admin and other DGers, via a link published at "HawaiiDiscGolf Website" with permission from the "Hawaii Disc Golf" website Owner, along with the re-publishing of the original and official Notice/Request that the PDGA sent for public notice. I asked for the PDGA to step in to take some control and help resolve these ever-ongoing issues back in 2001, and 3 years later, I am still asking them to. This SUX!! But, it is where we all are...for so long.....in what so many call "potential DG paradise". I hope to help make it actual(DG Paradise), but that can only be done with open lawful cooperation....not with promoted and supported subterfuge and exclusion. Does ANYONE else have any ideas or references as to why things are so bad out here...or am I the only one openly concerned and questioning the 20+year lack of PDGA events, sponsor support, player respect, PDGA Rules support, promoted professionalism and transparency? Where's the PDGA's "official" response...or control....or suggestions...on behalf of their Constitution, Rules, Membership, past events, or advertised State Rep's and TD's words and acts in the "State Of Hawaii"? Do they "really" want to censure me to silence too?....or were they referring to others when they spoke of such possible action by them? At this point in time, "We're all here, because we're not all there"............"yet"! I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY. DiscLamer Disclaimer: http://yb3d.com/disclamer.html Don't dread on me! Bobby Garner – "The Vehement Scotsman!" PDGA 5714 Creator/Founder/WebMaster/Spokesperson - Hawaii Disc Golf - est.1999 POBox 129 Pahoa Hawaii 808.965.1377 dg@orb3d.com PSsssst....on a personal, ethereal, and really "out there/here" note - I still have faith(I paid my 2004 PDGA dues), even though this year's(2004) was the "first" Hawaii PDGA event that I purposely did not attend, and even though there are no other island(s) based events scheduled for this year. It would be strange if I maintained Hawaii's Highest Rated Master status for two years(2003,2004), while poorly playing in only one 2003 Hawaii PDGA event, having my and HDG’s support publically questioned while being clearly and repeatedly misrepresented in publicised endeavors before, during, and after PDGA events. I won the 2002 States in DG by 9 strokes, and won every casual/mini event as a Pro for many many months, but was not invited to play in 2003 States, nor either 2004 PDGA event, nor ANY local casual events since Sept2002. I was repeatedly asking for upcoming disc/tourney info. The new State Overalls TD stated in forum that she "did not know about my or my website's existence"...after my years of participation and disruptive forces....and personally seeing and conversing with her at several past events. Her event was "publically" posted less than 14 days before event, which many others seemed to know full well about, and were able to make travel and accommodations arrangements. I believe too many have openly and contradictorily claimed a unified ignorance of HDG website, persons, mission, goals, and purpose......as they constantly change and/or remove their own statements, clubs, imagery, names and leaders. On one hand they claim to be able to work together for 20+ years, while on the other, they use incommunication and/or their lack of perception of our 4+ years HDG existence as reasons why they can't or don't notify HDG or I(5714) of their plans and events.....as I’m simultaneously being told to shut-up and go away since Sept2002. But, that too has been removed from "their self-censored discussion forum". I believe the "so called" DG Gods clearly expressed their opinion for this year's BigIsle tourney via extreme wind, rain, lightning, hail(except for Sat at Mackenzie) and actual Texas Twisters(tornadoes) on BigIsle and Oahu! These truly and actual "disruptive forces" have NEVER occurred since my '99 arrival, and MANY MANY locals said they had NEVER seen anything like that on the islands(not just waterspouts, but actual tornadoes...with Hilo hail!). It was very unusual, intense, and extreme....for here. It has happened before(tornadoes), but according to some local weathercasters, it had been about 40-50 years since last reports of such. Kinda felt like "springtime in Texas".....in Hawaii. This was quite "unlike" the 2003 PDGA BigIsle event HDG helped promote and I participated in, where we had beautiful weather and unusually tough strong non-partisan 30-40+mph steady Kona(south) winds(whew)........and the incredibly awe-inspiring "Mothership(lenticular/discshaped cloud formation)" hung over the tourney/courses ALL WEEKEND!! IT WAS TOO COOL!!! (NOTE: Because of the strange things I've photographed and seen with my own eyes since being here(other than really awesome discshaped clouds), and because of the uniquely extreme and dynamic geological features present(Kilauaea world's most active volcano)(Mauna Loa largest mountain on Earth, 56,000ft(most under water))(21 of Earth's 22 climate zones occur on BigIsle)(BigIsle has more endangered species than any other earthly locale)(and we have more GMO test sites than anywhere else too) in the middle of the "largest body of water in the known Universe", and because we sit precisely at 19.5N latitude where the Mexican/Egyptian pyramids sit along with the so called face and pyramid(s) complex on Mars, and because I have met and spoken with "very unusual looking and acting" beings at the black sand beach and elsewhere that actually claim to come from another world/planet "via tetrahedrally oriented energy vortices present at 19.5N(19.47 actual) and South on ALL spherical liquid core spinning objects in the universe(HawaiiHotSpot,JupiterRedSpot AND many other planetary storms,unusual sites,etc)", I half-jokingly refer to this place as.......... ......."A Galactic Resort....of Sorts".) I do wonder. Even though others may believe and/or state differently, this year, like last, for the Big Island PDGA sponsored flying disc event, I believe the so called Disc Gods displayed themselves "very clearly". (It might be kinda tough to coerce, censor and/or censure them though. I believe they move in strange, mysterious and omniscient ways toward truth.) I don’t know why we are so drawn and compelled to throw these plastic disc-shaped flying things around in competition. I do know what has been said by me and others for MANY MANY years.... "There’s nothing like watchin’ ‘em fly!" "Amen!" So, from the universally(and locally) called "Island of Manifestation"(BigIsle), this is what's going on......in regards to the continued observation, manifestation, and promotion of flying discs. |
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